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Pointing to the horizon where the sea and sky are joined, he says, ‘It is only an illusion because they can’t really meet, but isn’t it beautiful, this union which isn’t really there.’ — SAADAT HASAN MANTO Sometime in 2016, a series of dialogues took place which set out to find a meeting ground, even if only an illusion, between A.S. Dulat and Asad Durrani. One was a former chief of RAW, India’s external intelligence agency, the other of ISI, its Pakistani counterpart. As they could not meet in their home countries, the conversations, guided by journalist Aditya Sinha, took place in cities like Istanbul, Bangkok and Kathmandu.On the table were subjects that have long haunted South Asia, flashpoints that take lives regularly. It was in all ways a deep dive into the politics of the subcontinent, as seen through the eyes of two spymasters. Among the subjects: Kashmir, and a missed opportunity for peace; Hafiz Saeed and 26/11; Kulbhushan Jadhav; surgical strikes; the deal for Osama bin Laden; how the US and Russia feature in the India-Pakistan relationship; and how terror undermines the two countries’ attempts at talks.When the project was first mooted, General Durrani laughed and said nobody would believe it even if it was written as fiction. At a time of fraught relations, this unlikely dialogue between two former spy chiefs from opposite sides–a project that is the first of its kind–may well provide some answers.

Neil Krishan Aggarwal is a psychiatrist and social scientist at Columbia University. He does research on and teaches the psychology of cross-cultural conflicts, negotiation and peacemaking. A descendant of post-Partition families, he writes on how Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs view themselves and each other’s communities.
Lieutenant General Asad Durrani is a former director-general of the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate of Pakistan. He is the author of The Spy Chronicles: R&AW, ISI and the Illusion of Peace (2018; co-authored with A.S. Dulat and Aditya Sinha) and Honour Among Spies (2020).
Amarjit Singh Dulat is a former head of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), India’s external intelligence agency. After retirement, he was appointed adviser on Kashmir in the Prime Minister’s Office and served there from January 2001 to May 2004. During this time, he accumulated a vast reservoir of goodwill with Kashmiris of all shades.